Wow. As if I needed another reason to hate this P.O.S.
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On the one hand, pretty much forced electric cars into the mainstream by sheer force of will (even if Teslas look like high-end kitchen appliances to me). Also SpaceX is pretty neat.
On the other hand… almost everything else.
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Oh sure, so that he could keep his profits up. He could give absolutely zero shits about the environmental aspect of it LMAO.
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Remember the Southeast Corridor Development Strategy that we’ve been waiting for? I’m not sure how we missed it, but it’s out now!
This report is basically a review of existing state-led projects consolidated into a single timeline and narrative (plus information on how those different moving parts can coordinate together). This means there’s not a lot of new big-picture information here for those of y’all who have been following the SEHSR issue closely.
But for those of you that don’t: the Southeast Corridor Commission is a diverse group of decision-makers (including people in the federal and state governments) who are trying to set a common vision for passenger rail south of DC. The commission introduced a regional rail plan in 2020 (which is reflected in Amtrak’s ConnectUS plan that was released later), and made the case for how it specifically benefits the economy the following year. This report talks about how the 2020 vision can be achieved, as well as what’s already being done about it.
Most of this report focuses on planting the roots for “High Performance Rail”, the backbone of the Southeast Corridor (which includes the Raleigh-to-Richmond segment that, confusingly, we often call the Southeast High Speed Rail corridor). What’s been happening (and what the report suggests we continue) is that we’ve started to build a DC-to-Atlanta corridor that is growing southward in terms of project progress. Here’s a map of each major segment from the report; note that rail corridor projects in the Southeast tend to go through a two-step environmental review process (the end of each step is marked by a Record of Decision, or ROD) before property gets acquired, engineering designs get made, and construction starts.
The report also goes into a good amount of detail talking about the complexity of working with multiple rail companies, seeking funding sources, how to make a schedule for trains etc. It’s a great read if you want to appreciate what it will take for us to have good, reliable rail in the Southeast within our lifetimes.
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I think the only new information for me thus far (I just started poking through the doc) is that they plan to expand the existing Piedmont trains to Atlanta. Makes sense, I’ve just always thought of the Piedmont as strictly a North Carolina service. Also, if y’all don’t feel like counting, here’s what SEHSR service out of Raleigh could look like by the time all is said and done:
- Ten daily roundtrips in total
- Nine daily roundtrips to Charlotte
- Eight daily roundtrips to Atlanta
- Six daily roundtrips to DC and beyond (one via the existing alignment, the rest on the S-Line)
- One daily roundtrip to Miami via Savannah
Pair this with other potential commuter rail and inter-city services, and Union Station is a pretty serious rail hub for the Southeast by 2050.
Click here for services that have been proposed and/or studied in recent years.
This list includes proposals on federal, state, and local levels:
- Clayton to Durham via Garner, Raleigh, Cary, Morrisville, and RTP (with potential extensions to Selma/Smithfield, Hillsborough, and Mebane)
- Raleigh to Fayetteville via either Garner, Clayton, Selma/Smithfield, Benson, and Dunn or Garner, Fuquay-Varina, and Lillington
- Raleigh to Wilmington via Selma-Smithfield, Goldsboro, Warsaw, and Burgaw
- Sanford to Franklinton via Apex, Cary, Raleigh, Wake Forest, and Youngsville (service could theoretically be extended to Henderson and Norlina as well, as they are participating in the TOD study, though I expect those will strictly be SEHSR stops)
- Raleigh to Goldsboro via either Knightdale, Wendell, and Zebulon or Garner, Clayton, and Selma-Smithfield
Counting SEHSR, you’re potentially looking at as many as nine different services running through Raleigh on a daily basis, many of which would have multiple roundtrips per day.
Not to be the resident grumpy cat, but part of me hates when one of these studies comes out, because, deep down, I know that most of these projects won’t be done until I’m old, if they’re done at all. It’s nice to feel hopeful for a moment, though.
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I’m desperately hoping that the greenfield Charlotte-Atlanta route is designed and built for 220mph electrified service, as mentioned in the study as a possibility. Even though I know it would take a lot to build that, if you’re going to greenfield entirely new infrastructure between two of the country’s fastest growing cities, shooting for diesel trains at 125mph seems absurd thinking decades/centuries into the future.
Plus, I have to imagine that (in 50 years or whatever), if there is electrified, 220mph service from ATL-CLT, the rest of the distance from CLT-RGH-DC will be electrified and upgraded too. (Personally, I love @orulz 's idea of a greenfield CLT-RGH high-speed route in addition to regional trains on the current NCRR.)
Maybe CAHSR will be a great success when complete and inspire NC/SC/GA to aim big.
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I like the idea of a high-speed Charlotte-Raleigh connection, but I really feel like the negatives are too toxic here… After all, even Owen acknowledged it as such:
…and I guess I’m skeptical that this deal is worth it in the first place.
The most reasonable and least environmentally destructive approach for a Greensboro-bypassing superhighway seems to be to convert US-64 and NC-49 to interstate standards just like US-421 (AKA the future I-685). That path is already relatively straight outside of Pittsboro (easily avoidable) and Asheboro (rail lines can stop near the Zoo instead), and you wouldn’t have to wrestle as much with how much you’re polluting a National Forest or an epicenter of the “forever chemicals” crisis. I’m struggling to imagine that an all-new right-of-way would pass a NEPA review over that.
…and besides, a new highway alignment also poisons the whole value proposition of high speed rail (lots of people movement, faster, with less cost and pollution per person). Plus, the NCTA could always pull a bait-and-switch. At that point, I’d be more comfortable with widening I-40 and plopping high-speed rail on the median 
But anyways, even the infrastructure that’s proposed now could take a long time to materialize. I’m just looking forward to these projects happening -if not for my benefit, then for my kids’ or grandkids’. It’s not bad to let our legacies outlive us, after all. (Maybe land use laws will change by then, too, so that high speed rail augmentations are easier to build?)
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will this include triple digit speeds? or near?
Athens Ga? Currently Amtrak runs through my hometown of Gainesville, GA an hour west of Athens. Seems like a big reroute.
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They want to make trains run at triple-digit speeds for the majority of the corridor -but I think you should be careful with your words, and avoid saying “will this happen”. Saying that implies high-speed rail is predestined to happen. Each and every component of the SEC is its own, separate project managed by different states and local governments, and every one of them have a chance of failing or being canceled until the day they open for service. That chance decreases every time a project matures in development or construction advances, but that is always a possibility (and we don’t want to jinx this fragile idea from becoming reality).
But anyways, this is in the Executive Summary. You might as well flip through the first few pages, if you’re curious.
Note that 125mph (200km/h) is globally considered the minimum for true high-speed rail. But even for the corridors that don’t get that fast, these improvements will be amazing if they can materialize!
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If I could take a train to Richmond and get there in about 90 minutes, I’d probably visit once a month. That would be awesome.
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Looks like the town of Apex is having an upcoming open house on their plans regarding the S-Line and TOD development through the downtown area. Interestingly they’re going to share plans on a possible train station in the downtown area too.
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Probably ages to get going but at least the planning is getting done now.
There should probably be a BRT route that goes back and forth from High House Rd/Davis Rd in Cary to Apex to Holly Spring to F-V. Not all Wake BRT routes should go to downtown Raleigh.
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I’m not sure about Holly Springs or Fuquay, but I’m pretty sure Apex recently rolled out a BRT route with Go Triangle. I think the ridership is super small at the moment, but I think they’re trying to make it more of a thing now and for the future. Think I saw in a recent town council meeting video they were talking about adding some new bus stops around town.
Definitely in the future it would make sense to do something along the 55 corridor BRT-wise since it runs through the heart of all three towns out here.
No. Apex’s new GoApex route 1 service is just a regular bus service that runs every hour, operated by GoCary.
I think a future BRT to connect Apex to Cary, Raleigh, and Morrisville would be nice to have, too, but they’re still just starting to take baby steps towards that.
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The link that’s on that flyer is missing a few subdirectory levels; here’s the actual working link to the TOD study:
The purpose of this land use study (linking back to what @UncleJesse and @colbyjd3 mentioned in the debate we had earlier today in the BRT thread if you saw that) is to make sure that our transit investments lead to broader economic opportunities including more housing, jobs, and quality of life. Just like good sewage systems lead to more productive economies by way of healthier people, a good transit system leads to economic growth through a better lifestyle.
This study lets the state take the lead, ensuring that the conditions are in place for one to lead to the other even if smaller cities and towns don’t have the experience or knowhow to do so:
Remember. though: this is a related but separate state initiative from the actual rail project. In terms of economic development, the actual rail project is the other half of a two-pronged approach to help our exurbs prosper just as much as the Triangle proper.
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Also… this page is only three paragraphs long, but it has a ton to unpack:
Even though NCDOT and Virginia’s Passenger Rail Authority were awarded federal grants to “purchase a portion of the S-Line corridor and advance design for future rail passenger service”…
Is this environmental document re-evaluation just to catch up the rest of the S-line to where the Raleigh-Norlina segment is with federal environmental clearance? Or could this be a sign that there’s more fundamental changes coming (maybe one where high speed rail is less of a priority)?
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An EIS ROD is only valid for a certain amount of time after its publication. I believe the period is 5 years but don’t quote me on that. After that, if you haven’t taken significant action toward implementaion, you have ot do a reevaluation.
I have wondered if the S-line grade separation projects in N Raleigh and Wake Forest are such a priority, in spite of the sparse train traffic, for just this reason: to extend the validity period of the EIS.
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Thanks for pointing that out. I found this memo on standard operating procedures from the Federal Transit Administration (though I’m not sure if there’s a more updated version), which says it’s three years.
Click here for details.
To translate important jargon for everyone: the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) is the federally-mandated process that our state went through for over a decade to build evidence that SEHSR can and should be built. We completed that analysis back in in 2016. The final report (the Final EIS/Record of Decision, or the FEIS/ROD) is signed off by the Federal Transit Administration (FTA), and it lists the type of work that must happen to restore the S-line between Raleigh and Richmond, including construction through/near pristine land, contaminated soils, and historic areas.
Then again, the EIS covered the entire span between Richmond and Raleigh -including the stretches of the S-line where the right-of-way is abandoned. If this new re-evaluation is only going to be done between Norlina and Raleigh (where active tracks already exist), I wonder if we can get away with the quicker and simpler Environmental Assessment process, instead?
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