Maybe they go harass Chatham County instead?
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Seems like a solid way to get any reasonable people to not support you. Hope they keep going.
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They completely twisted the words of the attorney to make it seem like she disagreed with the council.
She was not saying that this is a land use case in the context of the comprehensive plan. She was saying this is a land use case in the context that they can not use the mosque as reason to consider for this zoning case.
They are absolute buffoons.
IMO, Jane Harrison missed the mark when it came to the 30-story zoning previously. But, the comprehensive plan is not the end-all be-all. It’s a guideline.
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I went in hard ! I actually commented before I posted up here.
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Yeah there a troll name MsWorldEnergy123 she’s just a troll I blocked her during this Shaw debate, then unlocked her a few days ago to debate her on Shaw she was nothing but disrespectful her, and her minions are. I said this rezoning is important and that she commented, “she doesn’t care how you feel or what you think”. She also thinks Sig Hutchinson is my dad. And called Jane Harrison out by saying “white allies don’t gentify”. I’ve since blocked her again.
There just using her for there agenda gosh we should ship them to space.
No need. Majority of population in eastern Chatham is in the anti development camp. I’m actually fine with that here. Tim Sweeney of Epic Games has purchased thousands of acres here for preservation and other wealthy individuals have purchased land along the Haw River for the NC land trust. Triangle needs a place where there is a break from the cookie cutter norm.
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At least it will be a thirty story highway.
I actually somewhat agree with this. More land being preserved is generally a good thing, especially around important ecological or recreational areas.
Otherwise they would probably just get developed into more suburbs. It’s better to have the development happen in our cities. For example, If Umstead Park was not protected land, it definitely would have just been more suburbs.
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Agreed. We should be all-in on our cities and places for people as we are in protecting our natural ecosystems. We have to stop living in this space in between (suburbs) where we pretend that we have both. In fact we get neither.
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Suburbs can be really pleasant and transit-oriented. The endless car sprawl is the enemy. Anyway, back to Shaw #boltmaned
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Not common. But a long-lived “seller” like Shaw, a corporation, or a multi-generation family might desire to retain long-term ownership of the property by leasing development rights instead of selling. At the the end of the lease they regain control of the property along with any improvements (like buildings) constructed during the lease period.
From the developer perspective a long term lease may be as good as owning the property. Had a multi-generation developer client that had a 100-year lease on a multi-generation owned property that they developed as a shopping center. And they planned a redevelopment (going vertical?) around the 40+ year mark.
Makes sense for Shaw particularly for critically located parcels. Money now and during the lease period. Get it back, with improvements, down the road.
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They don’t automatically get “control” of the structure to be very clear. In addition any viable lease would run 50-100 years.
If Shaw & St. Aug are still viable in 15 years I will be shocked…regardless of this deal.
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Not the norm but not unheard of. It depends on negotiation but the ground lessor typically maintains a higher degree of control over the development than if the land were sold, and the developer has a higher incentive to start quickly.
But buildings are usually fully depreciated over 20-30 years so it’s not like the ground lessor is getting a brand new building at the end of the term
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I don’t know how these contracts work but which developer would want to develop on a land lease of a university that might not survive economically?
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One that thinks the real estate in itself is valuable even without the University.
I think all the handwringing about Shaw having an uncertain future is overdone, alarmist, or just discounting the role or significance of HBCUs for whichever reason. Even assuming there’s any truth, this is all prime downtown property that wouldn’t necessarily rely on the university to operate.
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I think Shaw gonna be seeking requests as soon as possible if there that financially dire.
I think developers with how the market is will take this opportunity to start leasing immediately. Its a longer owner ship for shaw and the other party a return on investment.
Looking at what numbers I could find, I can see why some are alarmed. Their yearly budget is ~$40m, and they are running a yearly budget deficit of $4m. They have an endowment of $13m, but more than $30m in debt. 60-70% of their income comes directly from tuition, room and board (average for universities is 40%), but they only have ~1,000 students and enrollment has been slipping (they had 2,700 students in the mid-2000s). Enrollment decline may not be so easy to reverse as it may be structural; in general, small liberal arts colleges are having a harder time attracting applicants. Their acceptance rate is already at 65%, so they can’t just open a floodgate of tuition dollars.
Shaw has a long runway, but only because of it’s real estate holdings. In 2019, their real estate was valued at between $160m and $270m. I could be missing something, but unless something changes, it sure looks like leveraging their real estate was an inevitability.
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Good points @Mitch This isn’t just a problem for Shaw, but all small liberal arts colleges, and its going to be a problem for many others going forward. We (in academia) are being warned about a coming demographic cliff, when HS gradate numbers are going to drop dramatically - supposedly it will start in 2025. The other threat is the drop in demand and respect for a college degree - just look at how many jobs don’t require one any more, from Google to Commonwealth of Virginia. Its a double whammy for a lot of schools. Add to that the additional burden for HBCU’s, and imagine Shaw folk are worried.
This development plan is a lifeline they no doubt need. Let’s hope it helps the institution weather the storm.
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Which is why none of the ‘Save our Shaw’ arguments made sense. The alternative to this is bankruptcy and, potentially, shutting down the school. There’s one particular person that speaks often at City Council meetings that seems to think that there “has to be money somewhere” to help Shaw. He mentioned the same thing for Prince Hall when the hotel developer next door was willing to work with them on renovations in exchange for their support on the hotel they’re building.
COVID relief funds have been dispersed. There’s no more recovery money, at least not for a while. Pretending that the money exists somewhere for these orgs isn’t reality anymore.
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