Zoning and Density

[wanderer]

Bringing the discussion here.

Previous thread post from @John :

William Peace and Seaboard Station

This is where I completely disagree. This sort of development isn’t weaving together an urban experience and behaves more like another indoor or outdoor mall that you drive to. This is not a binary choice IMO. You don’t have to sacrifice connecting to a community because you want to have an internally facing event/gathering space. For as large as Smoky Hollow is, it has given us a dearth of either Harrington or West facing storefronts. Even worse, places like Midwood put their kitchen back…

What about Smoky Hollow do you really consider to be inward facing? How does it lack into integration of the neighborhood. From my point of view, you are viewing this because it’s not facing the street where cars are. Smoky Hollow is definitely easily accessible to the surrounding area walking wise. If they faced outwards, they would be facing a railroad track.

Maybe this is something we just disagree on in general. I would be curious:

• What is is that causes you to consider Smoky Hollow to be inward facing?

  • Tucker St. and West Johnson St. are literally right beside it. On the South Side, you have Little City Brewing (RIP) facing outward along with Alexia’s Bridal Boutique. West Street Dog is facing outward. The Line leasing office is facing out. I believe Milklab faces out. Madre I’m not sure but Midwood does face outward towards the Northern side. The North side would also have views of inside of Smoky Hollow and what would have been Crunkleton.

• How do you say it’s not connecting to the areas outside the development? It’s very accessible.

• What would be a good example of what you would consider to be a development that’s well connected to the surrounding community? Is it the fact that it faces a street? Is there one that has pedestrian access only that you would also consider to be well connected to the surrounding community?

Other post from @urbanist

William Peace and Seaboard Station

I’m sure all retailers would prefer to conduct their business in a hermetically sealed environment, but unfortunately, that’s not how cities work. A city is not a loose cluster of self-contained developments, no matter how individually successful those developments might be. Raleigh should aspire to be more than the sum of Smokey Hollow + Crabtree + Fenton. If retailers really want to operate in an anesthetized setting that only they control, they should move to an actual shopping mall next …

A lot of big cities do have malls or contained developments.

• NYC has places such as the Oculus Center or Hudson Yards.
• San Francisco has Pier 39 and the Metreon. They had the Westfield Mall right in downtown, but that has recently been closed down.
• Denver has McGregor Square and Cherry Creek.

I agree that Raleigh should be more than Smokey Hollow, Crabtree, Fenton, NH, etc, but it pretty much already is. We have Moore Square, Glenwood South, Fayetteville St. Each of those places don’t really have a pedestrian only shopping/eating area.

I’d be curious of your thoughts on the shopping area I posted here: Show Off Things From Other Cities - #3896 by wanderer

You won’t be able to know by those photos alone, but if you want to see it on Google Maps: https://maps.app.goo.gl/VhwvUvj5oDyEuXt69
Note that not all streets listed there allow cars to drive at certain parts of the day.

How about Zwanestraat: https://maps.app.goo.gl/BTMUsC77UVqCxuF66 Or
Here’s a link of photos from when I went to Groningen, Netherlands. Note that the streets there are closed to traffic at varying times if you look from above the city. When I went on the weekend, a lot of streets were closed off to traffic. Show Off Things From Other Cities - #3088 by wanderer

Edit to add summary:

I think places like Smoky Hollow, NH, or Fenton mainly get hate due to the fact that they’re new. I still have my annoyances with Fenton. NH I do because there’s a poor pedestrian and non-existent biking connection from the west side to the east side across Six Forks Rd. North Hill’s doesn’t own Six Forks Rd. For Fenton: I believe they own Trinity Rd within that section (although I do not know). The new street is already too wide for my liking.

Of course these are all my opinions. I’m not a developer, city planner, or anything like that. I just know what I like in cities I’ve visited.