I agree that more passengers would be needed before a people mover is warranted. That need for more passengers is also a reason I don’t think the money for a commuter rail should be spent to make that connection.
If you let the commuter rail do it’s own thing and make it as efficient and cost effective as possible, then it becomes the airport authority’s responsibility to take advantage of it. Let them do their expansions and get their numbers up. The I-40 ramps are being improved now which should keep traffic acceptable for the foreseeable future. If the rail is a success and traffic becomes a bigger problem in the future, then RDU could request funds for a people mover on their own. Let them get money from all the surrounding counties and put in a people mover that they would control. That way they can decide how it works with their parking and bus situation, they can set the schedule, select luggage specific pods and charge whatever works for the ride.
I agree. The primary focus needs to be on getting the commuter rail system up and running. The airport authority should keep track of how many use the Morrisville rail stop and transfer via taxi/Uber to the airport to determine how viable a dedicated service would be. The next step would be to provide a dedicated bus or van if the amount of connections warrant it. This would likely be over the course of several years as the system matures.
ALLRIGHTY I am in agreement. When presented with the details of the high obstacles to an RDU connection to the current commuter line, I see that this is not possible in the near future. I’ve never looked hard at the details, and had assumed the lack of RDU connection was due to political issues or resistance from the RDU authorities. Things that could be overcome. But that’s not the case.
And an RDU connection shouldn’t hold up a phase 1 rail system.
So I guess we’re back to how to pay for this thing. I guess getting the top 20 employers along this line to chip in $50,000,000 each ($1B total) on top of the tourist tax would get it going?
I agree as well. I travel to the airport a LOT (average a couple times a week) and would be just as happy hopping off a rail to a bus or a connecting rail.
I am way behind on what has been discussed in this thread but here is a link to a webinar that may or may not provide some insight on the future of this.
In theory we can fund this with existing local transit sales tax revenue from Durham and Wake, leveraging additional money from the state and the FTA. It is likely that Orange will throw their hat into the ring as well for an extension to Hillsborough and Mebane now that LRT is dead.
That is assuming costs don’t escalate too severely.
As far as good scope creep is concerned, I would love to see some serious discussion of electrification, both for this corridor and really the entire NCRR all the way to Charlotte.
Yes, that 12-13 million number is passenger traffic (into and out of counted separately and combined). Passenger Boardings at RDU are around 6.5 million (500,000 ± per month)
I think using DMU trainsets for the commuter rail is the right way to start to limit cost with a long-term plan/vision to electrify the corridor from Raleigh to Charlotte.
I did read an interesting article a few days ago talking about Ireland ordering battery-electric trains for their rail system which would allow fully electric trains to run on non-electrified corridor. They trains that can run on batteries, but would use strategically placed overhead lines to run while connected and charge the batteries for the next off-line section of track. An interesting way to potentially maximize limited infrastructure funding as maybe a stop-gap as the network grows.
I don’t see electrification happening along the Raleigh-Charlotte corridor any time soon. The segments from the northeast corridor in DC to Richmond, then Richmond to Raleigh would likely need electrification first so there would be one continuous electrified line along the eastern seaboard, thus avoiding equipment changes every few hundred miles. Our proposed commuter system could be electrified one day however.
I was trying to find some evidence to support a reply to a different thread, and came across this draft agenda for GoTriangle’s board of trustees meeting on June 26 (next Wednesday).
Here are the highights:
Where do you keep getting these GoTriangle proceedings, Keita?
There is no consideration of new electrification south of DC at present. Not even the multi-billion SEHSR between Raleigh and Richmond would be electrified. DC-Fredericksburg would be the first to get it because of VRE, but the cost would be massive. At present there’s more bang-for-buck in increasing track capacity.
Meanwhile, technology in diesel-electric locomotives has improved and they can accelerate trains more quickly than before.
Some of us remember when DC-Alexandria (or more specifically), DC-Potomac Yard was electrified. The last freight trains to use electric locomotives were in 1982, and much of the catenary was removed shortly thereafter. Of course, Potomac Yard itself has been redeveloped since then.
Beyond the use of CSXT’s ‘S’ line (Norlina Subdivision) for commuter rail with planned grade separation projects having received funding for the crossings at New Hope, Millbrook, and Durant:
I hadn’t realized that there was interest in the remaining segment of the Durham & Southern Railway as an additional piece of the Wake Transit Plan. Hmmm.
I think that article is talking about putting commuter rail on the S line from Cary to Apex rather than the DS line. However, the DS line has come up as a possible future commuter line before too, although its orientation towards Durham instead of Raleigh means it will be less of a priority for Wake County. Think of it as our future version of Texrail/cotton belt. At the present rate of growth our population will be comparable to the Dallas/Fort Worth area in 35-40 years or so. Maybe we will get around to it a little sooner than they did, so… 25 years minimim.
@orulz True that. Durham, being the former industrial town that it was, definitely has more redundant railroad capacity around it, like Dallas and Atlanta, than we do in Raleigh. Gives them an advantage for adaptive re-use. (Although that downtown Durham Loop will not be as easy to un-do)
As a frequent downtown Durham visitor, I have a feeling the Durham Beltline trail will get so embraced once it’s finished that converting it back into a rail line is off the table for a very long time.
Heck, this is Durham we’re talking about. Because of the legacy of Black Wall Street and redlining leaving a bigger scar on their local psyche than Raleigh, the idea of rightfully treating historically black neighborhoods like historic heritage, in general, is sacrosanct. The whole point of building public transit is to help get more people to places that are worth going to, but if you end up destroying the value of a place in that process… …y’know?
This would be really cool, but I wonder how commuter rail will affect how developers think about selecting sites and projects to invest in. Like if it convinces investors that density (over continued sprawl) is actually worth it, could it end up being a good argument against using the D/S line -simply because it would be “more worth it” to just add more frequent service to the Durham-Garner service that’s in the pipeline now?
