Downtown South development

After the fiasco we went through the last time we went to Walnut Creek, I’ll never go back to that venue. It was a complete disaster, the show should have been cancelled or rescheduled, but instead we only got 5 songs from the band we paid to see after sitting in traffic for an hour and a half, then nearly 3 hours of severe thunderstorm delays. No communication at all, people were wandering around like herd animals back and forth to the entrance, then back to their cars. We didn’t even stay to see the main band as it was already really late. They had to make the show go on
(even as short as it was) so they could keep our money and not have to reschedule. I’ll take RedHat a million times over Walnut Creek anytime.

Edit: We’ve also been evacuated from RedHat due to storms. However, we all calmly walked across the street and hung out in the lobby of the convention center until the storms passed, then went right back over to Red Hat. It was very organized and calm. Nothing like the chaos that was Walnut Creek. That is the difference of an urban venue (easy parking, place to evacuate to) vs being out in basically a bunch of fields with insufficient infrastructure to handle the crowds. Even thought RedHat is a smaller venue, the surrounding infrastructure is many fold improved over WC.


Ehh. I’ll be 83 by the time this is done. Might as well be as far as away as Walnut Creek is for infrastructure for the foreseeable future .


I’m sorry you had such a bad experience. The worst thing I’ve ever encountered at Walnut Creek were beer prices.

Red hat capacity is 25% of Walnut Creek amphitheater. A venue that size (21k) requires massive infrastructure and space that could only be achieved in Dix park. The artist you saw at Walnut Creek would simply not play red hat. If we did not have WC, most of those shows would go to either PNC arena or Greensboro colliseum.

Sounds like your gripes are more with Live Nation (ticketing/booking/marketing) than the venue.


Live Nation makes every venue worse, always.


Actually we’ve seen that band half a dozen times at RedHat. Hence why we didn’t care about staying for the main performer that night.

Gotcha. Well the headliner wouldn’t be playing red hat in that case. Unless it was a band that did a closed lawn show at WC which is much more comparable to RH

Signs have been installed around the development.


Let’s show up ! And show out ! #YESTODOWNTOWNSOUTH


Please everyone who can needs to go in order for this to be approved. I wish I could go but I’m out of town for school.

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Its not virtual?

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Thats a super good question :eyes:

The Planning Commission will meet this Tuesday concerning the agenda for October 13th on the rezoning for DowntownSouth 40 story / 20 story projects & the soccer stadium . This information is
in their attorney’s paperwork . You have to scroll down a long way to read the attorney’s letter to the city .


The Town Hall presentation and discussion from October 5th are posted here - Downtown South District - Support


Not trying to be a negative Nancy, but I personally I don’t see the draw of Downtown South. How is this a good thing for downtown proper? As it stands right now, downtown Raleigh still has many needs that haven’t been met and this would be just another development that takes projects away from downtown. Similar to North Hills, which in my opinion is a serious threat to downtown. Once Dewitt’s Midtown Exchange combines with North Hills and the JC Penny’s parcel is redeveloped, less and less people will care about going downtown. Downtown South would be just another reason to avoid downtown. I would would love to see the area where Downtown South is going get cleaned up and improved, but downtown itself still has a ton of needs that haven’t been addressed and need to be, before we start looking at other areas.


With over 1.1 million people in Wake County and growing, I think there’s room for all 3. Also, there is a case to be made for engaging people who want an experience that’s somewhere between suburbia and true urbanism. Also, these sorts of developments take pressure off of ever expanding edges of the urban area by providing significant housing as infill instead of plowing down more forestland and farmland.

I watched the presentation by Kane and thought that they were very smart to do 3 things:

  1. Lead with women’s voices. This is a tactic that politicians do as well; it lets the message come from a less threatening place than if it had come from a man.
  2. Use actual language from the past engagement/feedback to intertwine their message in terms of the community’s voice.
  3. Sell DT South as a district, rather than a development. The narrative that they are looking for partnership to build a community focused district is very savvy.

I really like their thoughtful placement of the stadium with an open end toward the skyline. I think that is something that everyone will like when completed. That location also pushes the noise of that stadium away from the closest single family neighborhoods.

What I am really interested in seeing is if DT South & DT proper can be linked with some sort of automated circulator, not just a BRT stop. With this section of Wilmington St. being a laggard in DT revitalization, I think that it’s ripe for some sort of people mover type thing. Wilmington is also well positioned as a nice boulevard type road that could quickly make a dramatic transition.


Thank You so much Dan for sharing such a good presentation of DowntownSouth Project ! Wow , This is what Raleigh needs plus Raleigh is Long Overdue for a downtown area sports stadium .


Thanks for this! I went thru and pulled some screenshots from the videos for those not inclined to watch 3 hours of video conference calls:


I actually find watching this video therapeutic…my thanks for sharing! :grinning: :hugs:


Wish this was all being built in the core of downtown instead :expressionless:. Still excited for it nonetheless.


Agreed, but this type of development would never happen in the core downtown. This is a big developer buying huge parcels of land and making huge plans and huge investments. Honestly, I’m not a fan of this type of planning in principal as it does not take incremental urbanism/improvement into account. (Imagine taking this same land area and chopping it into 100 small parcels all for sale to the public. We wouldn’t get a soccer stadium, but we’d likely end up with a new neighborhood eventually)

I like that downtown is being densified as small parcels become development opportunities, whether they be infill, renovation, brownfield, or greenfield. This to me makes downtown development more organic or emergent, closer to mimicking nature, and therefore being more resilient.