The site is currently a surface parking lot that is zoned for 7 stories. IMO, getting a 20-story tower here would be a huge win, especially if it is well designed with an activated ground floor.
10 Likes
Oh sure, itâs in the âitâs better than the nothing that isâ category - Iâm simply saying that 20 stories is still wasted potential because this is a completely empty surface lot one single block away from the high-rise CBD of Fayetteville St, and once these 20 story buildings go up, thatâs it. There wonât be the chance to build tall and ultra-dense here after that. Whereas, with the current City Council in place that recognizes the unstoppable growth of our city and the importance of allowing maximum density wherever possible, especially this close to the CBD, a 40 story rezone would be approved without question - and then these developers could really maximize the site and build for the far future. 20 stories on this lot is highly short-sighted, IMO. The only thing I will say is the saving grace is that, based on the link @mike posted above, they have a SUPER attractive portfolio, so at least it will be a good looking 20 story building(s). It just absolutely should go taller here. These empty surface lots downtown are starting to become farther and fewer between, I just want to see them all used to their full potential before theyâre all gone and developers have to start tearing stuff down to go tallerâŚ
1 Like
Good to see more non-local development firms taking note of Raleighâs opportunity. Also, interesting to see how these firms - with established development catalogs, assess the opportunity for density (and height) in our cityâŚ
Iâm interested to see what this firm might do here.
From their site " Tidal focuses on maximizing unseen opportunities and creating meaningful growth for our investors through elevated and thoughtful commercial and residential projects across the country. With every project, we seek to build what others arenât. "
4 Likes
Condos??? 
6 Likes
I really like Tidalâs portfolio. 1111 Church in Nashville is nice looking. Kind of like the top half of PNC Plaza without the âhatâ. Their new Nashville hotel and Boreum condo projects in NY are also interesting.
I am not very impressed with most of what LS3P has done. For instance to me Legacy Union looks like it was designed in 1985. 300 S Tryon isnât bad. I donât think they have done a resi project over about 12 stories.
1 Like
Totally fair and pretty much what I was saying with the reference to Vantage, CLT. LoL, and I purposely did not reference the Legacy since we already have our own top hat and donât need anotherâŚ
Hopefully this is a level up. Probably gonna be like the building Tidal is dropping into the Gulch in NVL as its too much to hope for something like the Boerum or Wythe projects in this market at this time.
1 Like
Nice! If they maximize their 20 stories, thatâs still plenty impactful on this lot, especially with nothing tall to the south or east.
Also will work well with Acorn to drag downtown southeast - right now itâs a pretty steep dropoff beyond Fayetteville in that direction.
4 Likes
My only hope is that it is a beautiful building that will be shadowed by 2 to 3 taller buildings on that same block in the next 5-10 years.
1 Like
For the block above : One big ass tower the on NW corner and one skinny-tall on the NE corner - keep the full height against the Cabarrus side with a sky bridge over the remaining Lincoln Theater, taper buidling height towards the South, leave the Pope House, create a âshop-frontsâ section along the back side and make Stronachs a pedestrian alleyâŚif weâre dreamingâŚ
8 Likes
Iâm thankful for the constraints. Iâd MUCH rather have diversity and multiple developments in that space rather than the mega-blocks that are the norm for modern construction. It results in a better pedestrian experience and more resiliency wrt ownership and poor design decisions.
9 Likes
Agreed. Seems like a good developer that chose a very average firm. Past experience seems to indicate that the projects that hire non-local architecture firms are the ones that end up looking fresh and different.
1 Like
Neighborhood meeting incoming on 3/23: https://cityofraleigh0drupal.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/drupal-prod/COR22/20220323Z-1-22.pdf
5 Likes
Any updates on this? We missed it. Thanks.
4 Likes
A story here about the meeting with the developer and the RHDC. There are concerns with construction of large buildings and its impact to the Pope House.
At greatest risk appears to be the Dr. M. T. Pope House, according to city staff. Dating to 1900, the house is believed to have already been damaged three years ago during construction of Charter Square across the street. Raleigh planner John Anagnost said that staff from the city engineering services department identified structural problems with the house that were not apparent before the construction.
Can we just suck it up already and give the Pope House some much needed love? Move it, renovate the crap out of it, build a small welcome center with some small grounds for group tours and events. I know some want it to remain at its original location but the history is just lost within the urban context of Wilmington Street in the year 2022. I feel leaving it here is the real crime rather than putting in some serious investments, especially with a new location.
25 Likes
Sounds like a great topic for someone that writes newsletters/blogs weekly. 
5 Likes
I strongly support keeping historical place in their original locations - the link to the past is vital in my eyes, and makes the tall buildings in the surrounding context much more interesting with the contrast. Moving should be an absolute last resort. Otherwise itâs kind of an odd historical Disneyland like that little street behind the Mordecai plantation house. Itâs cute, but itâs a bit surreal.
That said, letting it sadly slowly fall apart is worse than anything else. Theyâve got to fix it up, and it canât be allowed to stall development in the middle of downtown.
9 Likes
basically the City wants to make the developer pay for a building that they do not own? Thatâs what this smells like. How do we know auto traffic didnât cause the âstructural issuesâ? They City is going to extort $500,000 from the developerâŚmark my words. The term âshakedownâ comes to mindâŚJohnKane & Steve Malik got a taste of this with DT South.
1 Like
This kind of historic renovation âshakedownâ happens in every city. Not saying itâs right, but a New York developer is going to be far from shocked.
I think the Cape Hatteras lighthouse might disagree with you on keeping a historical item in its original location 
4 Likes
Has anyone seen the movie Up? I know I know, I have small kids but this is what comes to mind when discussing leaving the Pope house where it is
2 Likes