Raleigh-area Mall / RTP Redevelopments

Also leave it to the little :pig: to lighten the moment.

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Iā€™ve been kind of curious how Cary would react if homeless started showing up in the park.

I would bet my last dollar that said homeless would be quietly bussed to Pittsboro

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There are homeless people in Cary. Some stay nearer to downtown, some further out. Have your eyes open, and you will see it.

Perhaps not as much as in some parts Raleigh, for many reasons Iā€™m sure, but it is unmistakably there.

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The biggest homeless camp Iā€™ve ever seen in wake county is in Cary behind the embassy suites off of Harrison Ave. At least 30-50 tents at the moment.

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Sounds like itā€™s time to push them out to Chatham Countyā€¦
:nut_and_bolt:

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That one is wild. It looks like a city back there.

Itā€™s kind of wild how similar TTC and Charlotteā€™s Northlake are. Both constructed around the same time, at extremely similar locations, with two stories, similar square footage, and nearly the same anchors - Northlake still has an undeveloped anchor pad that was expected to be Nordstrom or possibly Saks. An outdoor village similar to TTCā€™s was planned at Northlake but that fell through as well. Both have struggled with public safety perceptions, and in the past month both were sold to new owners who seem focused on buying small town/declining malls and just keeping them on life support. TTC is probably in a better position currently due to generally less nearby competition, but I feel like its longer term outlook isnā€™t especially promising under this type of ownership.

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I work for a developer and we are building new apts near Northlake that open next week. There is a lot of new development coming just behind the mall and demand for housing has been high. The mall may not survive but the area has a lot of opportunity.

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I think that sort of mall footprint was pretty typical for the time period.

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More housing supply is definitely needed, but there is really only so much opportunity for the Northlake area by this point. It is centered around arguably the weakest mall in Charlotte, and unfortunately due to the perception of crime in and around the mall, there arenā€™t going to be many people choosing Northlake over other parts of the city (if they have the financial ability to). Hopefully TTC is able to avoid some of the issues that have plagued Northlake.

Havenā€™t there been crime issues in the TTC area already?

2008 there was a massive fight with hundreds of teenagers.

Every mall inevitably has crime issues. I mean there was a shooting in North Hills last week. But for some reason some malls are able to brush off those issues better than others. Concord Mills had a string of incidents throughout the 2010s that started to tarnish its reputation, but when Simon took over it seemed like that was brought back under control. Ownership at Northlake and TTC has been much less deliberate especially over the past decadeā€¦not just the crime issues but default/foreclosure problems as well.

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I do remember that there was an incident a ways back, but I didnā€™t remember it being hundreds of teenagers (yikes). That said, I was trying to broaden the issue to beyond the mall itself by asking about the general mall area. My mother has a friend who was living in the apartments near there after her divorce and I seem to remember hearing that there was a worrying amount of crime, but that may be wrong. As for North Hills, while there was a murder there,I donā€™t think that anyone perceives its overall location to have particular crime problems.

According to the TBJ, Research Triangle Park is apparently considering changes to how it lets member companies use land so that denser, mixed-use developments could be possible!

This is especially relevant and fascinating since:

ā€¦so the idea of ā€œRTP 3.0ā€ seems to be a response to this. Itā€™s an evolution from RTP 1.0 (the old regime of suburban, isolated office parks) as well as RTP 2.0 (the pre-pandemic idea of making Hub RTP being an urban core that serves the rest of RTP).

The Research Triangle Foundation (which owns RTP) said theyā€™d ā€œestablish a committee to develop policies aroundā€ entitlements that would let landowners develop shops, houses etc. on their property if the vote passes on the 31st and rezoning requests that get triggered by the covenant change are approved by both Wake and Durham counties.

Although the article makes it sound like many companies are enthusiastically supportive of this move, itā€™ll be hard to track how this will actually proceed - especially since we have no clue what the amendment to RTPā€™s landownersā€™ covenant look like. After all, itā€™s not a public document (and naturally, there are no public copies of it online).

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I attended a presentation that gave us a preview of many of these changes in detail a few months ago! Very promising progress and I was extremely impressed by the mindset of the planners behind this. Some highlights here might interest you.

EDIT: not me realizing ā€œa few months agoā€ was actually a full year ago now :upside_down_face:

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Regarding #4, I want to say that this goal is closely connected to the planned triangle bikeway project which is still in the early planning stage.

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Thanks! Not sure how I missed that post, but itā€™s neat to see that thereā€™s been (sorta?) public signals about this happening for a while. Itā€™s one thing to rezone existing lots, but itā€™s fascinating to see that RTP actually wants to change the geographic fabric of the entire site.

One more thing to note: according to CAMPO, the Wake County portion of the Triangle Bikeway started its design phase this past September. Plus, GoTriangleā€™s grant for relocating the Regional Transit Center includes budget provisions for connecting to the future bikeway, too. So itā€™s early and complex, but it seems like thereā€™s a concerted effort to keep all the moving parts working together.

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