This project alone will add between 1100-2000 ppl/sm to downtown proper. It’s getting increasingly easy to imagine DT Raleigh proper having 20,000 residents in its little more than 1 square mile.
7 Likes
Has Kane developed condos anywhere to date? Just curious. They are adamantly opposed to the idea for the W Cabarrus project. I think they’d get more buy-in from the neighbors if it was condos vs apartments.
2 Likes
I wonder why they are adamantly opposed to the idea of condos? Maybe they just don’t want the extra layer of work that’s required to go under contract with individual buyers? Maybe they see that process as slowing down the project delivery? Maybe apartment are just too profitable in today’s market?
I doubt they are adamantly opposed to condos in principle. They are probably adamantly opposed to committing to condos at this point. They do not want to put for-sale units as a condition of the rezoning. They want the flexibility to build what the market demands and what can be financed.
1 Like
That’s actually how I initiated the question at the CAC meeting. Something like, “Knowing Kane’s history of building apartments vs condos, is there a determination if Phase 3 will or could be condos.” Undecided.
1 Like
The reason given was related to financing the project. I’m assuming they don’t want to deal with the conditions to secure financing for an owner-occupied building (i.e., having to presell a certain percentage of units).
Given that reasoning, I highly doubt they will go with condos for a 700 unit building if they won’t do it for a 500 unit building.
2 Likes
20k will take a long time still but 10k is going to happen very soon. Pretty impressive considering Charlotte just cracked that mark for Uptowns density. Obviously Uptown is more land area but still.
3 Likes
Rentals beef up the long term portfolio. Condos are one and done profit. Kane has developed immense financial leverage by building and owning all of his property residential and commercial.
Kane has actually sold his residential rental buildings too. There has been quite a secondary market for stabilized apartment communities lately. the payouts are quite large and the construction financing for apartments has been abundant. Less so for condos.
Some notes from the Planning Commission meeting today:
- Construction on Phase 2 to start next month
- Phase 3 is being targeted for completion in 5 years
- Phase 3 to be built out at around 6-9 floors of parking, ~12 of business and the rest residential
- Might have a seperate hotel from the main building
- Council member Bob Geary raises a concern about our lack of good public transit in Raleigh, which is helping to contribute to why people are complaining about traffic around this site
- Council member Eric Braun raises a concern that if we wait for transit before allowing height and density, we’re going to be stuck with a downtown full of 12 story buildings
- Braun also urged the Council to start considering “opportunity cost” and look at allowing more height/density in order to gather more taxes for improvements to infrastructure downtown
No resolution about the 40 story proposal today. Council wants to see more details about the plan. Overall, this felt more like a conversation starter than the Kane team expecting to get an approval.
As an aside, I think @OakCityDylan stood up to support the proposal. Unless there’s some other OneWheel rider around here.
12 Likes
Thanks for the update. (Additional characters)
I’ve been spotted! 
Yes, I did stand up in support of the project, why, and reflected the concerns around the Johnson St. exit off Capital and what I thought would ultimately help relieve that flow.
I’ll add that the committee decided to hold the decision to the larger planning group (not sure exactly what that means) and to discuss further on 4/23. In the meantime they plan to collect questions they want answered from Kane, potentially a requirement for a TIA (though unlikely due to cost, delays, and what would ultimately not be useful actionable information) and give Kane some time to formulate a response for the 4/23 meeting. Kane seemed to expect this process of the rezoning request could take another few months. One committee member was very vocal about trying to be as efficient with this process as possible as to not delay any more than necessary. Also, there were some concern or perhaps more curiosity about what materials would be used, what the building would look like, etc. Of course we’re too early in the process for that kind of engineering/design to have been completed. There seemed to be a general comfort level with existing Kane buildings that it wasn’t a big issue.
6 Likes
I’m glad that Geary (or was it Braun?) said “We shouldn’t be making decisions on building materials for the builder” in response to that concern.
5 Likes
Kane is used to it, others would rather not deal with it and go spend their investment money somewhere else.
1 Like
Thanks for the updates guys. I mostly agree they shouldn’t be picking the building materials, but if he’s really putting a 40 story building at the entrance of downtown, it’s going to be a big impact. I doubt he’s planning to build it in some Soviet brutalist style, but obviously I think some people would have objections to that.
1 Like
Who wouldn’t want to roll down Capital Blvd and see the Archdale on one side and a 40 story Kane-built concrete slab on the other?
1 Like
Lol! I honestly don’t really care what he builds, any of the stuff he’s built so far are fine in my opinion. I’m not that picky. And I doubt he’s gonna cheap out for potentially the 2nd tallest building downtown, and a signature tower anchoring all of this Smokey Hollow stuff plus acting as a gateway to the corridor with the Warehouse District projects he has on the other end.
Also, I noticed they moved the construction trailer from the Peace St site today. It was at the edge of the construction zone, adjacent to the recently demolished buildings. There was also a steamshovel moved next to Finds last night. Hoping they’re going to finish the rest of the demolition in advance of them starting Phase 2 next month.
1 Like
Is it the case that developers don’t have to go before appearance boards or communities with this new UDO? I mean, have you seen the Revisn Hotel on Boylan!? 
I believe that’s a different part of the process once the design has been established and presented, no? I don’t think the planning committee has influence on that but I could be wrong.
Glenwood South has 2-3 times more residential density than other downtown Districts, but relatively few offices. Consequently only a few restaurants can stay open during the daytime, with little retail. One Glenwood will help, and Kanes redevelopment of Smokey Hollow should bring about a significant increase in daytime pedestrian traffic.
6 Likes