Here’s a free idea for anyone to steal or shoot down. The lots in the attached image are owned by the NC Educators Association and the Raleigh Chamber, directly downtown, with prime access to McDowell, MLK Blvd., and McDowell. The the area highlighted in yellow takes into account what I assume is a 100’ right-of-way held by the Railroad. The area highlighted in blue is the footprint of PNC.
Based on these highly scientific methods, PNC’s footprint is approximately 5.58 acres while the area in yellow contains approximately 6.72 acres. A propos of nothing, Bridgestone Arena in Nashville has a footprint of approximately 6 acres, while Capital One in DC has a footprint of approximately 5 acres.
I imagine there would need to be significant changes to the site’s vehicular access, as well as access to the property on the other side of the tracks. But I think this is the only such spot available downtown. By my count, all other possible tracts within walking distance of downtown would require either closing a grid street or a deal with the state, federalis, or Shaw, each of which would require significant substitute facilities.
Awesome plan. Similar to the situation of Nashville’s Bridgestone Arena which is next to their convention center so it makes double duty of all the hotels and services around it.
The new Raleigh Arena would look spectacular next to the Performing Arts Center and right by the new 30 story / 40 story towers being planned there. Of course it would kick off tons more investment as other mixed use / hotels rise around it and Raleigh’s convention center.
And Shaw Univ… what kind of uplift would they see? Interesting possibilities!
However, with the Exploris school being planned for the old Duke Energy site as part of the larger Urban Innovation Campus, an arena there is likely no longer a viable option.
(@dtraleigh - This may need to move to the City Gateway/NCAE block discussion.)
Also didn’t they just allocate a ton of money to PNC for improvements and renovations? We’re not going to be building something else as long as we’re paying on that and by the time PNC has outlived its usefulness, there won’t be any room in what we now call downtown.
Those funds will carry PNC through the end of the Carolina Hurricanes lease (2024, I believe). Tom Dundon has already stated he would like an arena downtown, publicly.
While PNC is a great facility, its in a terrible location. Houston Texas has no NHL team (not sure if they want one). Dundon is from Dallas. Houston will pay for a downtown arena…as will most cities trying to lure a pro sports franchise. No city would be dumb enough to pitch a parking lot, suburban location.
The City/County will have to come strong with a new deal after 2024. Dundon knows what a downtown arena would provide over a parking lot. Granted the City/County could propose some sort of extension to 2024…but my guess is the extension will be predicated on a real plan to move the arena downtown. PNC will be approaching 30 by then…which will make it a dinosaur, comparatively speaking.
$200 million is going to be expected to last a lot more than 4 years. Dundon can want a downtown arena all he wants but if he’s not putting up downtown arena money, he’s not getting jack.
I wish they could just get together with the city or whoever and make this happen, for as much as those upgrades will cost for the PNC Arena $$$ they could put it towards a Downtown Arena they already have the area designated for it by the Memorial Auditorium a reporter with the Triangle business journal actually raised this valid point already with a article highlighting this scenario.
Take this for what it’s worth, but a prominent media member told me that the belief (at least among his colleagues) is that Dundon will move the Canes. He has something in his contract that says he can’t move the team for a certain amount of years, but after that, they believe his goal is to move the team.
I have no inside info on this other than that conversation. Just caught me a little off-guard because I heard people wondering about that when he bought the team, but nothing more since then.
It’s a semi-standard NHL clause that prevents teams from moving after a sale. In this case it is seven years which coincides with the Canes lease. The rumour pops up every so many years. I think the odds he’s going to move the team are low, mostly because Bettman doesn’t want the team to move but also because they’re in the process of partnering with Jeff Ammons on the development of a practice facility in Morrisville, and negotiating a new lease with the renovations to PNC they want and more control over arena scheduling/management. The threats to move the team act as a great negotiating tactic but they’re mostly bluster in my opinion.
(I thought I had heard something about them also getting development rights to areas around the arena but I don’t remember where exactly I heard that from. Maybe just a voice in my head)
I’m sure if there a new arena the city will partner up with Tom Dundon to bring a downtown Stadium if he pays up. We have to keep the Canes in Raleigh.
I think the idea/hope is that the recently approved renovation budget for PNC will help convince Dundon/Canes to renew their lease for another 15-20 years beyond the current expiration in 2024. Those negotiations are supposedly happening now. Imo it would be a disaster for Raleigh to lose the team.
When we are approaching the end of that lease extension in 2039 - 2044, PNC may be near the end of its useful life, and there will be discussions of a new arena if the Canes are still in Raleigh and that is what they want. Not sure if NC State would also be involved or if they would look at something separate.
If nothing else, he wants a downtown arena, period. What’s the best way to get a city to give you what you want? Threaten(even if it’s not totally true)…or just allow the “rumors” to gain a life of their own that you may move the franchise…and voila…a deal is struck for a new downtown arena!
Just count the number of times it has happened across the NHL, NBA, MLB, & NFL (which is the worst for extorting a city’s ego)
The original city officials that helped develop the PNC arena have mentioned that structurally the PNC arena only has about 15 years left before either a new structures needs be to built or an extremely expensive renovation needs to be done to the aging area. We’re talking $500+ million or even more. At that point just build a new one completely.
Yeah I’m not saying it’s going to happen. I’m just saying that it COULD happen and there are rumors stating such. Sure, owners threaten leaving to get demands met, but owners also move teams. It would be unwise as a community to take the Canes staying in Raleigh for granted. The best way to keep them here is to attend games, root them on, and hope they keep winning.
At the end of the day it’s about Dundon’s bottom line. If he’s making big money here, he’ll stay. If he thinks he could make significantly more somewhere else and the opportunity arises, he may look around.
We NEED the Canes here. I want them here. I’m just saying it’s no done deal that he wants to be here long term.
I watched it happen in Richmond. The R Braves wanted a new stadium in Shockoe Bottom… the City wouldn’t build it, so they moved to Gwinett County in Georgia.
Richmond did get a new team later, but not sure how/who they are affiliated with. But the stadium is a dinosaur and needs to meet the business end of a wrecking ball.
Well here the worse my biggest fear, (though I think it’s impossible) what if the Nimby come back into the council let say there younger generation nimbys like younger maybe younger than Jonathan Melton and Saige Martin by a few years there more intelligent they’ve probably studied other team relocations like what’s going with the Raiders from Oakland to Las Vegas. And studied the notion and tactic that all owners say oh “Uf you don’t do this I’m relocating” cause that what all owners do (You even said that was a scare tactic) especially if it’s relocations and owners that have done relocation used it as there warning tagline for that to show that they don’t want to leave there respective city. And that got that specific city moving on a stadium and for the cities that didn’t take it seriously the consequences happened Relocation. My biggest fear is if Nimbys were to take over and they were younger diverse millenials like Jonathan Melton or Saige Martin (maybe a few years younger) they be like “Ohh Tom Dundon threatening to move oh that what all sports owners say when they don’t get what they want” and then when Tom says that they won’t take him seriously and he’ll have no choice but to move the team that’s what I’m afraid of if that futuristic scenario were to happen.
Honestly, I think the big “threat” city for the Hurricanes to move is Charlotte.
They don’t have to change the name, logo, or anything other than their mailing address.
It would keep the same TV market (possibly trying to play more towards ATL’s TV market), but in a bigger city that may be willing to give him a different setting for an arena.
Don’t give him any ideas. But I’m not sure how much money Charlotte could throw at the Canes after David Tepper gets through milking them for a new Panthers / MLS Stadium
