Raleigh-area Mall / RTP Redevelopments

I though I had read something about a greenway being put in. That would provide a pedestrian/bike link. I could be wrong.

There is a greenway master plan that shows a future trail from Ccrabtree creek, along Big Branch up to Eastgate park. It runs through Kane’s development, and I think Kane has plans build it through his section. But will be mostly useless until the city can extend it across the beltine down to Crabtree.

3 Likes

Culvert under 440 wouldn’t be too hard to construct. I prefer greenways to always go over so you can have a nice looking ped bridge but whatever gets it done

3 Likes

I always prefer the alternative that best matches with topography.

If the surrounding ground is low, and you’re crossing something that’s high, then a tunnel.

If the surrounding ground is low and you’re crossing something in a valley, cut, or trench, then a bridge.

If the ground is all level, then I prefer whichever option involves fewer steps / a shorter ramp, which is usually a tunnel.

In this case, though, I believe they’re planning on running the greenway together with the Barrett Drive/Quail Hollow Drive connector on a bridge shared with cars.

5 Likes

My bridge reasoning is purely aesthetics / creating the vibe and atmosphere for the area.
When it’s the tunnel people may not even know it’s there. When it’s bridge, you may capture people who are like “hey that’s pretty cool! Let me go there” or even out of towner passer-bys may be like “that Raleigh place sure has some nice bike / ped infrastructure”

But other than that, cheaper is better.

7 Likes

I can see your point. Tabaco Trail overpass in Durham is a great example, as is the Greenway trail going across 440 at Wade.

7 Likes

Personally, when I am sitting at the bottom of a 50’ climb to get up-and-over a bridge, Especially if it’s a part of my commute, or if I have my kids with me saying, “come on dad, do we have to??” , then I am very inclined to disagree that atmosphere or creating a vibe is really worth the extra trouble. It’s never pleasant to linger on a bridge over a highway, either, because it’s just so earsplittingly loud up there.

3 Likes

Very fair points there!

For some reason I actually love the feeling and rush of standing over a highway and just watching and listening to the traffic go by. I know, I’m weird lol
I honestly just love sounds of the city. It may come from going to New York and Boston so much as a kid.

Hopefully with the connector bride that houses the trail they’ll make it more of a parklet / signature bridge with extra wide buffers and vegetation rather than the greenway feeling like a double wide sidewalk.

5 Likes

With this location right in the middle of our 2nd biggest city district I could envision a beautiful bridge with some extra cantilever features and night lights sort of like this. image

12 Likes

Ironically, on our many trips back home to NWNC, when we drive back through Durham on 40 I always see several folks standing on the ATT bridge watching traffic. So maybe you’re not as weird as you think you are haha

5 Likes

ATT bridge is a good place for a bridge because it spans from a high ground to high ground, over the highway which is lower. The climb from the Southpoint side is gradual and doesn’t climb very much, and there is literally no elevation difference on the north.

Contrast that with the climb to the bridge from the Art Museum to House Creek. It’s a 60’ climb from the west or northeast, or a 30’ climb from the southeast. Or the bridge from Marla Dorrel Park to MacDonald Woods Park in Cary - a 40 foot climb on the Dorrel Park side, and a 30 foot climb on the MacDonald Woods side.

Are bridges neat - sure - and they can be attractions in their own right, but they can also detract from the overall experience of a greenway as a whole. Do you get a few people coming to visit the bridge to see the view, sure - but you also get fewer people overall using the greenway because of how much work it takes to climb the hills. People avoid hilly greenways, for real - I’m not making it up. The flatness of the trails that follow the rivers and creeks, and of the Tobacco Trail, are a big part of what makes them so popular.

I also understand that digging under existing highways can be challenging, and in that case a bridge may be the only option. But all else being equal, having a solution that fits the topography is the number one priority to me.

4 Likes

And if you’re a cyclist using Strava it’s fun to see how fast you can go up it. My record from bottom to top is 58 seconds. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

4 Likes

Are you talking about one from North Hills down to Anderson via Six Forks Rd? I’ve walked up that area and the sidewalk could definitely use some improvement.

1 Like

There is so much more that goes into that than you’d think. Not only the two developers agreeing on the plans but coordinating with the city, state, and federalis. I agree it’s optimal but don’t count on it

1 Like

The one I see follows big branch creek. It’s near Anderson but then would go north across the beltine, not following six forks.

The walkable Raleigh plan for midtown has this information: https://cityofraleigh0drupal.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/drupal-prod/COR22/MidtownStAlbansExecutiveSummary.pdf

Edit: A better starting point to learn about the plans for the St. Albans-Midtown are is here: https://raleighnc.gov/midtown-st-albans

And from that plan, here’s my personal holy grail of cycling happiness. With this connector I could ride a hundred miles if I wanted to without every encountering a car (well, almost):

9 Likes

I’ll drop this here, but I think this is going to have a similar draw (different demographic) that Ikea has for the region those exist drawing people from all over (not exactly an attraction, but similar draw?). This is going to be a 3-story showroom essentially with a restaurant and other amenities to help consumers visualize themselves with the respective furniture/pieces in their lives. Grab a bite from the restaurant and enjoy it on a dining room table you’re considering. There’s one in ATL that @atl_transplant may be familiar with.

https://visitnorthhills.com/directory/rh-gallery/

7 Likes

Never been! But always passed it and wondered what kind of insanely priced stuff do they sell in there. But definitely agree, won’t bring in the sheer number of people IKEA does but it’s definitely a destination shopping place.

2 Likes

Definitely looks cool. I know the one in Boston caught my eye enough to wander around inside, and it was pretty fun just experiencing it. And I didn’t feel out of place there, because I knew deep down that I could indeed afford some of their furniture (if I took out a second mortgage on my house).

3 Likes

I like to look also, then search the Interwebs for similar looking furniture at 1/10th the price, then take out a 2nd mortgage for that piece.

6 Likes