Paywalled but interesting article comparing High speed rail here to France. I really like that the author used 2.1 million as the population for Raleigh.
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I was thinking about the SEHSR yesterday while reading about a proposal in Congress to pull funding for California’s cursed high speed rail project. I wondered couldn’t that money build the SESHR line and get it up and running? With the southeast continuing to grow at such a rapid clip (even Alabama’s population went up in the last census!!) isn’t this the time to make an investment that could alter the development trends in the region?
With new trackage required from Raleigh to Richmond, that is one leg that could be done right. In my mind, there would be a new line directly from Raleigh to Charlotte, via Southern Pines and Ashboro. I hate to cut out the Triad, but I am thinking speed and directness. Charlotte to Richmond at true high speed seems doable as opposed to the NE Corridor with all the obstacles and declining population, and certainly actually ever completing the California line, which I hope in my life time will connect Bakersfield to Merced. From there, the line could be built out to DC and Atlanta - and hopefully Birmingham.
I look forward to smarter peoples’ thoughts on what seems like the most fruitful truly high speed line.
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I love where you’re going, but I strongly disagree with cutting out the triad. I think cutting out that much population would make it significantly less likely to get North Carolina funding and a high speed train through that corridor could spur a lot of economic development throughout the state.
Plus, at true high speed rail speeds, would it actually save a significant amount of time?
As rough a start as the California HSR had, when it gets built it’ll be better that it goes through the medium sized cities than if it had cut them out.
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I was just brainstorming and thinking that the easiest way to build this was totally new lines rather than retrofitting or upgrading existing lines that often run through built out areas, and thus increase the costs and difficulties in construction. I believe this is one reason the California line runs up the Central Valley rather than the following the more direct and existing lines up the coast between LA and SF, and is the core of the problem with improving service in the NE. I have no idea how much time a true high speed, 170mph+, on a new, nearly straight route to Charlotte would save. I would think that with high speed you want to go 90 min’s or more between stops, although from this site I’ve learned that electric trains can accelerate much more quickly, so that is not a deal/time killer.
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We discussed this at length earlier in this thread, starting here:
I agree that if we want a real 200+ mph high speed rail line in NC, Raleigh-Charlotte direct route is the most realistic option.
However, this should be a second priority; upgrading the NCRR for higher speed (125mph?) electrified service and at least an hourly schedule.
Elsewhere I went ahead and drew up a plan for the Raleigh-Charlotte direct route (including a single station at the midway point in Asheboro, incidentally at the NC Zoo) and propossd a way to fund it, at least partly.
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Once all scheduled grade crossing eliminations are completed, and aside from putting up the wires – how much work do you think would be left to get the NCRR corridor rated for 125mph? Say the Cary-Durham section is double tracked as well for the commuter rail. Seems like we’d be most of the way there, no? Unless it’s not straight enough?
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I think there would still be a lot of straightening required after grade crossing elimination. Especially east of Greensboro. This section between Durham and Hillsborough comes to mind.
Current services don’t even reach 79mph in this section. I think the S curve at University (west of the junction on the map) is rated for 45mph or something. Having ridden it, it’s pretty slow. Not to mention the other curve just west of Durham at I-85/NC147, which is quite tight.
There’s also the matter of adding dedicated passenger-only tracks. This would be required the whole length as, like @orulz pointed out, NS has a max passenger speed limit of 90 for shared tracks.
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The plan of record for the NCRR calls for the biggest curve straightening project in the entire state to go at University Junction. Similar to the completed project between Graham and Haw River, but larger in scope, it would be completed as a part of building a double track section on the H line.
Source: the 2009 era ARRA stimulus application
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So can we, or should we, distinguish between intercity high speed, along the NCRR, and the regional higher speed - that would be the direct line that @orulz mapped out- Raleigh-Charlotte direct line?
I keep coming back to the idea of a new, dedicated line that is straighter and faster i the hopes that it jump starts an entire network.
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All I can add is that if you’re going for true DC-to-Atlanta functionality, it certainly looks like it makes more sense on a map to cut out the Triad. And it’s a pretty small, sleepy metro area in the Eastern Seaboard scheme of things.
As for the politics of state funding, I can certainly see it being a hurdle.
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Asheboro is part of the Triad MSA, right? So it would check the box and serve the Triad, if you kept the NC Zoo stop that @orulz proposed.
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Would probably need a massive federal HSR spending bill and even then I’m not sure they’d go for it when NCRR could be upgraded to higher speeds + electrified. And honestly that’s not so bad, you could probably do the entire corridor in 1h30m-ish on a route with only CLT-GBO-RGH stops at 125mph.
But maybe it’s not impossible if Charlotte - Atlanta 220mph greenfield route becomes a thing…
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Upgraded NCRR via Greensboro is the first priority; upgrade it with higher speeds and electrification to cut the trip time from roughly 3h20m today, to something closer to 2 hours, and a frequency of at least a train every hour before moving on to the direct route which would cut the journey time in half again, to just about an hour.
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If Charlotte-Greensboro and Raleigh-Greensboro were frequent on the hour and faster, then Greensboro could be served by an Atlanta-Charlotte-Raleigh-DC high speed line through a convenient connection.
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It feels to me like Greensboro is sort of a natural interchange spot for numerous different projects/proposals. In addition to being one of the “big 3”, it’s already the transfer spot if you were trying to get from Raleigh to Atlanta via rail. A high speed line running from DC thru Triad to Atlanta, with multiple trips per day to the Triad from the Triangle to make that connection not suck as it does now… plus the Triad makes sense as a change spot for travelers from the Triangle and or Charlotte on their way to other locations in the state as the statewide network gets built out (in particular I’m thinking of Hickory/Asheville). It would be best for the long-term viability of any and all rail networks in the state to have a central hub and not a bunch of separate disconnected lines, would it not? And the Triad makes more sense for such a hub than either the Triangle or Charlotte. (If we were looking at a system with multiple lines through the eastern micropolitan areas eg Greenville/Kinston/Wilson/Lumberton/etc, maybe the Triangle would be a better hub location.)
I might be wrong; it just feels a bit short-sighted to try to dump Greensboro when it already serves as something of a hub and seems likely to end up as a stop on any HSR line connecting south to Atlanta. I mean, getting even one HSR line built honestly is going to be almost a miracle.
The sprawl along the entire I-85 crescent is so extreme that you need to be prepared to spend tens of billions of dollars to thread HSR through all the warehouses, factories, subdivisions, and strip malls that stand in the way. In contrast, it’s wide open rural land on the chord from Raleigh to Charlotte. Plus, it shortens the trip by like 25 or 30 miles
Upgrading the NCRR and then adding ultra high speed rail between Raleigh and Charlotte is also not “dumping” Greensboro. I do understand it is problematic for politics/optics but I genuinely do not believe true HSR in the I-85 corridor is feasible. The planners for Atlanta-Charlotte reached the same conclusion when they decided to all but bypass the SC Upstate (Greenville/Spartanburg).
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Or spend it on a subway! 
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It’s simple.
Eastern Seaboard Ultra High Speed Rail Line/Maglev(?) will go from the Northeast to Atlanta with stops in the south at DC, RVA, Raleigh, Charlotte, Greenville or Columbia (eh or maybe not), Atlanta.
North Carolina should build a high speed rail line between Wilmington and Asheville with stops in Raleigh and Greensboro, etc.
A person going from DC to Greensboro will have to switch in Raleigh but otherwise the service will be a fast and pleasant experience with no compromise for everyone else.
The future Japan Rail Shinkansen maglev train will be one of the straightest ‘rail’ lines ever built. It has to be pretty straight and the Carolina Crescent is a pretty big issue.
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I was going to say hyperloop as an option.
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I am just marveling at the idea of a 60 min trip between Raleigh and Charlotte.
I certainly see your points about upgrading the existing line, that should happen. But why do you think it should take priority?
My support for the greenfield/direct line is about making a headline project a reality. California is single handedly convincing vast numbers that HSR can never get done. A blockbuster like Cht/Ral would change the political and public discussion. I think upgrading the existing line would find even broader support as a result.
I do appreciate your thoughts and expertise. Thanks for sharing them with us
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